You don’t have that honeymoon period for very long. Maybe a 100 days, and you have to execute and prove that you deserve to win that election by fulfilling the promise to the American people. In the eyes of many in the world, this every 4 year ceremony we accept as normal is nothing less than a miracle. In America, we understand that a nation is only living as long as it is striving. Only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom in its hour of maximum danger.

This great nation will endure as it has endured, will revive, and will prosper. Whether we go forward together with courage or turn back to policies that weakened our economy, diminished our leadership in the world, America’s future will be in your hands. Welcome to our Project 2025 transition project and our training session today. Why your service matters, how presidential appointees at all levels can impact policy. I’m Derek Morgan, executive vice president at the Heritage Foundation, and I’m joined today by Roger Severino, vice president for domestic policy, and Aaron Walsh, who’s our senior fellow in international affairs at the Asian Studies Center.

We’re gonna be talking today about why it’s important to be aligned in an administration, why you should serve, and the impact that you can have. And so with that, I think we’ll get started right away with introductions and where we served in administrations. All 3 of us served, different presidents, some of us multiple presidents. We’ll get to that. I served for 4 years for Vice President Dick Cheney as his staff secretary and special counsel and assistant to vice president.

It was a an excellent experience, and I’m sure we’ll get into that a little later. But, Roger, why don’t we start with you and where did you serve? I was in the Trump administration as director of the Office For Civil Rights at Health and Human Services, HHS. And before that, I was a trial attorney at the US Department of Justice as a career. So I was able to see both sides on the political and the career side.

Excellent. And Erin, tell us where did you serve? Well, I started at the age of 18. So I served, 4 presidents, starting with Ronald Reagan. I was when I was in college, I was at the office of, correspondence and then went on to political affairs, then went over to, the office of protocol and served at Blair House, Department of Energy, and then, in, the Bush 1, 40 1, I served, up the US mission to the UN for 5 years.

And then in 43, I came back and was at the state department in near Houston Affairs Bureau. And then during the Trump administration, I was at, the White House and then over to as as assistant secretary at Department of Commerce and then came back to the, White House at the National Security Council. That’s fantastic. Well, we’re gonna be the beneficiaries of of all of our experiences here as we talk about it. I wanna start with, Roger, and I’ll start with you on motivation.

What was it that encouraged you to make that step to kind of put your hat in the ring to try to serve the president of the United States? Well, the opportunity to impact policy at a wholesale level. When I was an attorney at DOJ, it was representing the United States, which is an amazing privilege, but for individual cases. And I moved from individual cases to large scale national policy and to having that impact at such a broad scale where you could see your ideas impact so many people for good was an opportunity that just could not pass up. And it turned out to be more impactful even that I imagined.

Because one of the things I realized is that it it’s so few people in positions of authority that are making these important decisions. And I really wanted to be a part of that. Fantastic. And, Erin, what is it that that drew you? I’m sure part of it was president Ronald Reagan himself who was such an influence on so many of us.

So, in addition to that, what what made you think, well, I should go work for the president? So I I had an opportunity, to go and do that when I was in school, and then I’d heard the, second inaugural address the president did. I was just bundled up with a few friends and we went down to the wall and stood there and and listened to the speech, and it was so inspiring and so I got involved just volunteer work and, then got a real job in the library and research center and it’s just being part of that administration was just incredible and, you know, it’s I mentioned to you earlier just getting coffee or Xeroxing or doing anything you needed to do to be part of a team because there’s one leader, one principle and that’s president of the United States and everybody else’s support and just to be part of that administration and all the administrations, as a matter of fact, it’s been incredible. Yeah. That’s great.

So there’s a a mix of really a lot of admiration for the person who’s running and certainly support of their policy agenda that all kinda comes into, to the motivation. Roger, you mentioned impact, and I wanna drill down just a little bit on that. What kind of impact were you able to have or should people expect to be able to have maybe at at multiple different levels? In my particular role, I was a regulator and enforcer of our civil rights laws, conscience religious freedom laws, and health privacy laws as well. That is unique.

Not everybody has that role. However, most federal agencies do have a regulatory function. They issue regulations and in many ways, unfortunately, that’s how we are governed nowadays. Not so much through our laws, but through our regulations. And there’s tremendous power if you work in a federal agency and you work in a regulatory role.

There are other folks who work in an enforcement role enforcing the laws, and there’s others who work in actual distribution of, federal benefits or federal programs or research and exact so there’s all sorts of places for people to contribute, but I do think people should be quite aware of the impact of our regulations on daily life. Mhmm. Yeah. That’s so important. And, Aaron, so you start off very, very young, and you were talking about being willing to help in any way that you can.

How does, your expectation of the impact you’re gonna be able to have, how does that change with time and and with experience? Sure. So my last role was at the National Security Council and, that’s a very different role than obviously you start out with and I I came in and out of government, obviously. Mhmm. And, I think the National Security Council is very much of a policy process.

So it’s different than being part of the, agencies. It’s really more if you didn’t have a National Security Council running this type of process, so the policies are made. I mean, the president drives the policy but there’s a whole system and processes in place in order to follow that and I think that that is something that that level of discipline that people have to have is very important and, because what is presented by the National Security Council to the president is where he has his options and can make a decision. And, so that’s quite critical. It is.

And, you know, I I think back on my own service and, the you’re never quite sure what your impact is, but, on a day to day basis, one of the jobs I had was staff secretary. And so I had the job for vice president Cheney that he actually did for president Ford. And, I knew that within my scope of control was making sure that all the briefings that he got were completely, factually correct and had all of the relevant information, perhaps multiple points of view fairly presented. And, you know, you had the the satisfaction of knowing that you’ve given the principal the very best information. Could I can I add to stories of impact?

During COVID, so much of the federal government was, in the beginning, in almost a mode of panic. And being there during that moment, it those who kept the level head made a tremendous difference. There were a couple instances where civil rights laws were being threatened, particularly with the question of rationing of medical care. Those are the idea that we’re gonna run out of ventilators. What are we gonna do?

Who’s gonna be choose to live or to die? Those questions. And, again, it was a a very scary time in our history. Some states had triage policies that would put people with disabilities, particularly Down syndrome, at the back of the line and make them flatly ineligible. And the civil rights office that I had I I led at the time became active on the issue and through our enforcement powers, convinced states to drop those discriminatory policies.

And so that had real world impact, at a very scary time. And, another example was same thing during COVID. After the lockdowns, people were not going back to hospitals. Beds were trying to be reserved for the most sick, and people are not receiving medical care. There was a question as to whether they could use their iPhones or use Skype, etcetera, to get telehealth because those devices were not HIPAA compliant.

My office was the HIPAA regulator. Well, we issued guidance saying that we would not be enforcing it in that manner. And I believe we actually saved lives and helped transform tele telemedicine because so many thousands of people were talking to their doctors when they otherwise were afraid to go to the to the medical centers and hospitals. Mhmm. And I’m sure we probably found people who were showing their doctors with their iPhone.

Hey, what is this, mole? And turns out it may have been cancer. It goes to show you’ll never know where your public service may take you, but you could even have life saving impact. Yeah. That’s fantastic.

And I was thinking about this in my own experience, which is particularly as a more junior level person or when you start out, you have to do your work really excellently. And then before you know it, someone turns to you and asks for your opinion on something. And that’s when you can have have an impact. And so it just, you know, as in life, we should make sure that we’re doing the very best job we can and, sometimes they’ll turn to you and say, well, what do you think, Roger? Or what do you think, Aaron?

So you worked for vice president Cheney. Did the vice president ever turn to you? He did. Yes. And, he also taught me he used to say this a lot.

He’d say, I got this job because I didn’t talk about the last job. So I probably shouldn’t share everything, but, I will share that there were there was a process for Presidential Medal of Freedom winners. And, I got the first draft of the memo of everybody that I thought should should win the award, and ended up taking some of those suggestions straight to the president. So, you know, you you never know, when someone turns to ask for your advice, they might actually listen too. Erin, I’d love to turn to you and talk and ask you that same question.

On the impact, I was just gonna say, you know, the religious freedom thing. It came to us. The president’s gonna speak at, you know, every year at the, UN. And so there was a lot of focus on religious freedom and I thought it’d be wonderful if the president could speak at the UN. No president has ever done that on religious freedom.

And at the same time from both the domestic side and the international side, we were looking at this issue and we all came together and domestic policy and the NSC and really drove a religious freedom. The president signed an EO and then went up and had heads of state, first time ever that a president has spoken on that issue. So it was really quite something very exciting. That’s fantastic. And, so much of what the president does is leadership and and that’s a huge step in leadership.

Let me ask you both because, we probably have a lot of young people listening here, and they’re wondering, and you both were senior folks in the administration, what kind of people are you looking to hire? Or the top 2 or 3, things that you wanted to make sure were on target? Erin, I’ll start with you. Sure. Great.

One of the things we were looking at is, people that a, had experience to go into the to the different roles that they had in each of the department. I mean, every single department that we have has multiple layers of roles. Everything from strategic communications to advance to, in the national security side, all a whole number of things on domestic policy side, the same thing. So we’re looking for people that have had academic or real world experience, in those areas and then we look for someone that is supportive of the president’s policies. They really have to be totally in line, with the conservative policies that the president has has, enunciated through the campaign and then obviously through the administration.

So that’s that’s the most important issue and drive interest in supporting and being a team player. And you really gotta have, like, all 3 of those to be effective. Absolutely. Roger, can you add to that in terms of, you know, the folks that are listening to this? Like, how could I make myself more appealing to a mid to senior level person?

You have to be willing to be flexible and willing to sacrifice. A lot of people who come to these positions when they’re young, they’re full of energy, full of ideas, and they they have to combine that with a work ethic that’s willing to, take what comes because these jobs are very fast paced. They’re very intense, but they are so incredibly rewarding. They are an adventure. When I would be interviewing folks to work under me, they would I’d get the typical questions.

What’s what’s a day gonna be like in this role? And I would do my best to explain it, and then I would tell them, but, you know, a month from now, it’s gonna be radically different Yeah. Because things are changing so fast, and people have to be comfortable with that. Mhmm. But I did tell them this.

I said, I can’t tell you what’s gonna happen 2 months from now, but I could guarantee you, you’ll be telling your grandkids what you have done after you’ve served in in the administration. Yeah. So well said. Erin, and and since you got such an early start in your career, what are the kind of positions that somebody even in college still or Right. Maybe just recently graduated, it’s their first job, what kind of positions are there available in the, you know, the administration at large for that type of person?

There are so many. I mean I think timing is everything in terms of your ability to to come into an administration. And even if you’re still in college, you can find ways of trying to volunteer if you can, in different areas and different departments. Sometimes they they take volunteers, they certainly had at the White House. And I think once you graduate from college, if you can get in when a president if you graduate when a president comes in or even a couple years later, 1st term or 2nd term, there are jobs in in policy, in scheduling, in advance, in strategic communications, and in in targeted areas where you might have had an opportunity to graduate from.

So If you work for an agency, then you’re gonna get a ton of expertise in a particular subject matter. So it could be FDA. It could be HUD. It could be housing policy, medicine. And that credential can go a long way because you will have that expertise that other people will not.

The positions, as I mentioned, are intense, and you’re gonna be exposed to a tremendous array of subject matters. But if you’re in a particular agency, you’ll be ahead of your peers when it comes to getting jobs in that industry. There is a revolving door between government and industry for good or for ill. And if you have that government experience, you get a whole lot of credibility right off the bat. Yeah.

And I’d I’d point to one. I’m interested to get your reaction to this. We had great success in our office office of vice president, hiring for folks that had taken entry level jobs as confidential assistants. So, we hired 2 confidential assistants to the director of the Peace Corps, of all things. And so, because a confidential assistant is somebody that’s got that dedication, that drive, Normally, they’ve got that commitment, that excitement, and they’re having to make a lot of personal sacrifices, because particularly in that particular case, they’re all over the world traveling, and that’s the person that’s right by the side of the director, who’s helping with everything from logistics to policy and everything else, that’s a really good training ground, and it’s also one where there’s a premium on willing to sacrifice and having, the kind of personality that would would, keep things in confidence and so forth.

That’s a really good, training ground and then you can go from there. You’ve shown that you’re loyal and that you work hard and that you think on your feet and you can deal with the principal and all the people they’re dealing with. So I would just put a plug in there for confidential assistance. That’s a really good point. I actually, Derek had hired someone right out of college who I had met a couple times and, brought her in and of course she had had this big degree and everything.

But she came in and it was it was just that and she just grew and went to the different places that I went, to and brought her along and everything as I said from Xeroxing to practically going in and outside the Oval Office. And so you just never know the key is to be open and be flexible as we had talked about every door often As we had talked about, every door often opens that you never would expect. Yeah. I think that’s really spot on and hopefully you land with somebody like Erin or Roger, who’s just really fantastic to work for because I know speaking for me, hiring those younger people and then helping them, mentoring them, helping them find the next job as well is just one of the most rewarding things about public service. It is.

I I would just say there’s no job too small serving in the administration. Go in and with both feet and you’re gonna find great reward. And once you serve in one administration, you’re credentialed to serve in another one. Yeah. Right?

That that’s one thing. There was an 8 year gap between Trump and the previous Republican administration, and we noticed that there was that gap in experience. So we really value people who had the knowledge when they were there in the Bush years because he knew how the place ran. And you can’t, underestimate how you could position yourself not only for working in industry but going back into government later in your career. Yeah.

Really well said. And so, let me turn to lessons learned because I’m sure there’s things you know now that you probably wished you knew, Erin, back when you were in grade school and started in your first administration, or, maybe in between your your jobs, like, going to the NSC that’s a new thing, like, there were other things that you learned there, I’m sure there were. But maybe 1 or 2 lessons learned, I’ll start with Erin, of, things you wish you knew before you had started. I think really the what I learned is, as Roger said, you don’t know how flexible that you actually have to be. Yeah.

Even though you might say, oh, I can be here 18 hours a day and oftentimes you are or more. Just the pivoting from issue to issue, it’s like going from lily pad to lily pad and you’ve just gotta be on it. So if you anything you can have anything thrown at you and I think that the flexibility is something that’s really important, and important. And also energy and optimism because some days things just fall apart at the seams and you don’t think you think it’s your fault or you think the thing is always keep thinking that you’re just rowing the boat, rowing the boat with everybody else and I think optimism is key and that goes back to leadership and leadership in every group. You don’t have to be sitting at the White House, to feel like you’re making an impact because you’re making an impact every place you are.

You’re part of an administration and part of a conservative movement. Yeah. That’s really great and your lily pad analogy is a really good one. And, another thing I think that is good going in is to really build that network of people that have a broad array of experience and knowledge that you can call on when you’re there. It’s like, I I don’t I’ve been presented with this issue.

I don’t out of my comfort zone, but I bet I I know 2 or 3 people I can call. Probably a lot of them work here at Heritage. Wink wink. Or one of our 45 partner organizations. That’s right.

And so building that network before you go in is also critical. And you do all along. As Roger mentioned coming in and going out like I personally have and and many people have, The people that I met at the beginning in the first administration, the second, the third, and the and the 4th, those are all people that you’re gonna know even if you come, from across the United States, which we really hope so many people do. It’s not just the Washington inside the beltway game. That’s not what we’re looking for.

The next administration really wants people from across the United States. So even if you come for a couple of years and serve or in the second part of an administration, everybody’s welcome. And I think that’s the things that you’re bringing from the states is is critical. And the network is so important. So you you have to be part of the conservative movement as a known quantity to a decision maker who will be able to hire you.

And that’s why this project is so important. We’re trying to connect as many people to give them the tools so that they will be part of that network. So when the time comes, we will know that person is a known quantity. They’re good. They’re eager.

They’re qualified. Let’s bring them in to serve. Because one of the things you realize once you’re in the administration is that time is your most precious commodity. You never have enough of it. You know you have 4 years and or 8 years at best, which may sound like a lot, but we had 4 years.

And we were counting the days, and towards the end, it was so many things we thought, wow, if we only had more time. And that’s one of the lessons is when you go in, prepare to to work as fast as possible, because the country is at stake. Yeah. And you only have a set amount of time. So use every day wisely.

And once you’re there, be willing to adapt to the circumstances. If I could walk through the policy process Yeah. That’d be great. From idea to to reality. I also served on transition where many of the it was all on a table.

The the world was an an open, open vista, and it was exciting. Then once we got the ideas in the form of executive orders, the president sets the agenda, and public servants are there to execute the president’s agenda, particularly political appointees. OMB and the White House Domestic Policy Council have an outsized role in coordinating and making sure the president’s initiatives are advanced and the agencies implement. And there’s a feedback. The agencies give their ideas back to Domestic Policy Council in in my circumstance, and OMB.

Once those ideas are fleshed out, it’s usually done through policy implementation with either guidance or more importantly, regulations. And that could be a 2 year process. Drafting the regulations, getting the public comments in, responding to the public comments, making sure they’re legally sufficient and adequate, and then you litigate them. Because if it’s anything of of real impact, there’s gonna be some divisions. And we’re a very litigious society.

It’s gonna be lawsuits. So you got to plan. Can you get all this done from idea to order to regulation to litigation, perhaps up to the Supreme Court as we did with the contraceptive, mandate? We actually got the regulation and idea and helped the little sisters of the poor and other religious groups not violate their conscience. And the Supreme Court decided it within 4 years.

We didn’t get all of that within 4 years. And that’s one of the biggest lessons of how important you had to plan it all out from the beginning. Yeah, Roger. That’s so well said and that’s so why we’re so excited about project 2025, to try to do as much of that thinking in advance so you can hit the ground running. I wanted to talk a little bit about timing issues because you just mentioned that it can take a really long time to get all the way through that Python of policy process.

Can you talk about the importance of hitting the ground running a little bit, both, the White House and also in agencies? Mhmm. You know, you hear a lot about the first 100 days or so. How would you, categorize that, timing? It’s key.

Every president has a honeymoon honeymoon period right after the inauguration. The country’s excited. It’s, either a new person or it’s a reelection, but we just got through an election, which is already tough. The president has so much running room in those first 100 days. You have to have an administration that knows exactly how to take the reins of power, if they’re changing parties in particular and implementing right off the bat.

You don’t have that honeymoon period for very long. Yeah. Maybe a 100 days. The American people will give you the chance to perform, and you have to execute and prove that you deserve to win that election by fulfilling the promises to the American people. So that’s the most frenetic time.

Also, at the end, it’s also quite frenetic because you wanna get as much as you as you could get in as possible, which means you have to be ready. Everything has to be done at the front end as much as possible, and it requires having the right people in there, hopefully people who have been there before. In my experience, it was a learning curve, and that took time. Right? And, again, we had an 8 year gap before we switched parties in the White House, and, it took some some time to get up to speed on some things, but we were able to work hard and get it done.

And next time around, we’re gonna be even more prepared, and I’m excited to see what’s in store. And, Aaron, I wanna hear from you in a minute, but I would just say to continue to watch and learn on these training videos that’ll really equip you, whatever agency you’re going into or White House office, to know what to expect that first day. And knowing what to expect is really half the battle or more than half the battle, and then doing that thinking in advance, which the the policy proposals in 20 project 2025 will do. So we’re we’re I think we got the recipe right, now we just have to execute on the on the cooking. But, Erin, what would you say about, timing considerations and how important is it to get that running start, for folks that are gonna be going right into an agency for sure.

Absolutely. First of all, I think this project 2025 is unprecedented. Usually it’s the transition period where people start putting these things together and to have something like this ready to roll, for someone that comes in is just fantastic. So if you have the opportunity to obviously read all the policies that have already been recommendations, that have been vetted, I think that’s really important. On day 1, the first thing you’re gonna be doing is going into your to your office and working with your manager, supervisor and your team.

And I think you will already sit down and discuss what’s gonna happen and you’ve really gotta get going. And I just as Roger said, you have no every hour counts and you never know after the 1st 100 days, obviously, you’re projecting beyond that because you have this full agenda that’s been laid out, but then there’s always things that could happen. I mean, if we look at president Bush at all of this, no one knew that 9:11 was gonna happen. No one knew that COVID was gonna happen. I mean, there are sidewinders that come and you just don’t know, but you wanna stay and make sure that you can get these things done that especially on the 1st 100 days.

That’s critical. Yeah. That’s that’s an excellent point. And, Erin, you’ve mentioned earlier about, we hope the next, conservative administration draws from people from all over, not just from Washington. And that’s an adjustment for a lot of people who are out there.

So, for the person who’s who’s watching this, from somewhere out in the heartland, maybe they’re not even in the policy world, maybe they’re a small business person or a lawyer, an accountant, plumber, whoever it might be that’s thinking about what could I add to this. What would be your advice to them? My advice to them would be to always feel confident that if you have the same if you’re aligned with the president and the conservative movement, everybody is welcome because you have something to add. All skills are are welcome here in Washington and and don’t be afraid to come to Washington because certainly the conservative movement has a lot more respect for the people outside who bring something and and and that’s America and that’s federalism. And so what you can bring to Washington is gonna have a whole lot of impact.

So we welcome you. Yeah. That’s well said. And I think even though the director of project 2025, Paul Danz, who was a lawyer in New York City, and he was inspired by president Trump and whose administration he served, and he stepped out of that world and into the personnel world, and, I I think he’ll tell you that he’s glad that he did and I know the president is glad that he did, for the service that he rendered, and really the as you said, the experiences and the outlook that you bring from outside of Washington is so critically important to making the things work. I’ll know just one note with president George, w Bush, along with all of the wonderful people he brought came, fantastic Tex Mex, which we really had a birth of, here.

But, just culturally, this town town changes with new administrations. And so, come here, breathe some some new air, some new life into our, into this capital city. I think it’s just so important and so healthy. Roger, anything you’d add on folks who are they’re in a different career track? Is it possible to pause and to go in and serve in government service?

And, what advice would you have? Yeah. If you have a mindset of being a change agent, that is incredibly attractive for people who are hiring in political positions. You have to be willing to say, I’m gonna, you know, take my high paying job and put it on pause, or, maybe I’m gonna delay some other life goal I had in order to serve at this moment now to make a difference. And there are so many obstacles.

You could have, recalcitrant, career, employees in an agency that are trying to impede the president’s priorities if they disagree. You could have infighting among political appointees as well. So you have to have a thick skin, but you have to have that guiding star of I want to come serve to help the country and implement the president’s policies. And if you have that drive, you’re you’re gonna be okay. And one other thing I would add on the personnel side, I saw good people who had that sort of drive taken out of consideration because they said some irresponsible things on social media.

Good. And that’s a very important thing to be aware of, that you will be vetted, on on your history of social media use for the good and the bad. If you’ve shown courage and grit and stood up for the right conservative principles, that will be a plus factor. If you’ve done it in a way that is reckless, that may be a negative factor. So be very sensitive to what you do in social media.

That’s a really good tip. And I’d say too that president Reagan had a sign on his desk that really everybody should have when they’re serving the administration, which is there is no limit to what you can accomplish if you don’t care who gets the credit. And I think that’s so true Mhmm. That when you’re having success spreading around, the, the accolades is really really important. Just remember it’s not about you, it’s about, the president and the country ultimately, and I think that’s one of the the the things I think we should end on is, you both are now here full time at the Heritage Foundation.

Your your work is to try to help save this country. Our president likes to remind all of us that there really is kind of a narrow window here we have to turn things around. So can you speak maybe, Roger, I’ll start with you. Can you speak to the urgency of this moment and, why even if it’s hard for people to understand how this might fit in their career, why it’s just so important that people do step forward and serve at this time? In short, the country is at stake.

The the the winds of cultural change have been going in the progressive liberal side for decades, and the only way to stop it is getting back the reins of power at the federal government. The the liberal behemoth has, used the federal government to pursue its aims with a vengeance, and that’s where the main fight is. And we need folks of great, solid conservative principles of integrity to step up and serve to take the country back. Yeah. Well said.

Erin, anything you’d add to that? Just, on the international side, I I think it’s from national security side, we’ve never had a greater threat than we do now, which is China. And I think that we need to recognize that. I had an opportunity to live there with the last firm that I was with. And I think it’s very clear ideologically, what our differences are and it just integrates.

It’s not foreign policy versus domestic policy, it’s all one now. And I think that we need to see what’s happened here in the United States and as as Roger said, move forward on a conservative track because it’s all it’s very clear what the next steps have to be. Well said. And and I think I just end by saying, if you are a person of good character, solid conservative, if you decide you can’t join this project, then think about there’s someone else that is going to do that. We’d rather be you.

Thank you for watching this session. We hope you’ll watch all the sessions to be as prepared as possible if the American people do give us a conservative president. Thanks very much for listening.